SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
It is day two of the federal government shutdown, and so far, there is no clear end in sight. Democrats and Republicans remain at an impasse. President Trump is leaning into blaming Democrats with threats to permanently cut thousands of federal jobs and a promise to cut what he called, quote, "Democrat agencies" in government. Democrats say that Republicans could have avoided this as they controlled the White House and both houses in Congress. They continue to insist on Republican concessions on health care, including extension tax credits for Affordable Care Act insurance plans. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries joins me now. He is a Democrat from New York. Leader Jeffries, thanks for being with us.
HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Great to be with you.
DETROW: I want to start with this. Earlier today, President Trump called the shutdown, quote, "an unprecedented opportunity" to achieve his agenda. He has frozen tens of billions of dollars in funds for Democratic-run states, including New York. He's eyeing major cuts to federal agencies. I want to play a moment from Vice President Vance speaking yesterday at the White House.
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JD VANCE: We are going to have to lay some people off if the shutdown continues. We don't like that. We don't necessarily want to do it, but we're going to do what we have to to keep the American people's essential services continuing to run.
DETROW: I want to start with this. Has this shutdown handed more power to the Trump administration?
JEFFRIES: No. The Trump administration has been out of control since day one. They've been laying people off since day one. They've been firing federal employees since day one, and they've been violating the law since day one. It's unfortunate that we now find ourselves in this Trump Republican shutdown because they don't want to provide health care to working-class Americans. Democrats are ready to sit down, have a conversation, find a bipartisan solution moving forward, reopen the government, but we have to protect the health care of the American people.
DETROW: But wasn't that a big reason why you and other leaders did not move forward with possibly causing a shutdown in March? I mean, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said it plainly, he was worried a government shutdown then would give the administration permission to wreak havoc on agencies. What was the change in thinking?
JEFFRIES: Well, House Democrats, myself included, strongly opposed the partisan continuing resolution in March because of the fact that it did substantive damage to everyday Americans. It hurt seniors. It hurt veterans. It hurt children. It hurt families. It hurt affordable care, and it hurt housing programs that people desperately need in this high cost of living environment. That's why we opposed it in March. And this bill is just a continuation of that on top of the Republican health care crisis.
DETROW: I guess my question is, if these mass layoffs go forward, what would you tell a federal employee who says, you know, I lost my job, and I feel like it's because Democrats forced this shutdown?
JEFFRIES: What's clear is that the American people know who shut the government down, and it's Donald Trump and Republicans. That's clear to the American people because Republicans control the House, the Senate and the presidency. And Republicans - the Trump administration - have been engaging in mass firings since the beginning of Donald Trump's presidency, and that's outside of the context of a government shutdown. This would just be a pretense that Republicans would use to do what they were otherwise going to do anyway.
DETROW: It's happening regardless in your mind. I want to ask you about another Democrat's point of view. Yesterday, I interviewed Senator Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada. She's one of three Democrats who broke ranks with the party and voted in favor of the Republican funding bill. I asked her why. Here's what she said.
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CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO: I think it's important for us to really work in a bipartisan way to solve problems, including addressing this looming health care crisis that we have. I see it in Nevada when I'm home. And we should be working together to solve those problems. We don't need to shut down the government to do that.
DETROW: What's your response to that? I know there's some differences of opinion within a Democratic caucus here on the path forward.
JEFFRIES: The overwhelming majority of Democrats are standing firm because we recognize that the health care crisis is not looming, it is upon us. Republicans have already enacted the largest cut to Medicaid in American history. That was part of their one big, ugly bill. Hospitals and nursing homes and community-based health clinics are closing because of Republican malignant action all across America. They are setting in motion a possible $536 billion cut to Medicare at the end of this year because of what they did in the one big, ugly bill. And we know that as a result of their refusal to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits, more than 20 million working-class Americans are going to experience dramatically increased premiums, copays and deductibles, whereas in the Trump economy, the cost of living is already too high.
DETROW: How much...
JEFFRIES: That's why there's urgency to this fight right now.
DETROW: How much would these subsidies fix those broader problems, though? And they already exist, and people are already having a hard time paying for health care.
JEFFRIES: We're talking about 20 million Americans whose premiums, copays and deductibles are about to skyrocket. And beyond that, you certainly are correct. There's a Republican health care crisis. We have to fix our broken health care system. We have to lower the high cost of living. These are things that need to happen, and the moment is now to begin to work on these matters urgently. That's what we said in that White House meeting to Donald Trump, to Mike Johnson and to John Thune. This is a matter that requires urgent attention. Johnson claimed that health care is extraneous. Health care is not extraneous. It's central to the well-being of everyday Americans.
DETROW: There's some action on the other side of the Capitol from you. There's a small bipartisan group of Senate lawmakers who are trying to come up with some sort of compromise about having that conversation about health care but giving (ph) the government up and running again. Is that action that you take seriously? Are those talks that you're closely watching?
JEFFRIES: Well, dialogue is important in terms of what's happening. Over on the Senate side, I defer to Leader Schumer as it relates to those conversations. We need to cancel the cuts, lower the costs and save health care.
DETROW: I want to ask you about the messaging battle, which, as you know, is really important to a shutdown. It usually decides how it ends. A lot of our reporters across the country are hearing that aspects of Republican messaging are getting through, including this false claim that undocumented immigrants would get health care coverage. That's something we are hearing a lot in our interviews. It's showing up in polling. Are you worried Democrats are losing that messaging battle?
JEFFRIES: Of course we're not losing that messaging battle. And the reason why we know we're not, one, they're lying, and they're lying because they're losing. There's nothing that Democrats have suggested in any way, shape or form that is designed to provide health care to undocumented immigrants. The law prohibits taxpayer dollars from being spent in terms of Medicare, Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act. And we know the American people aren't buying it because the overwhelming majority of the American people know that it was Donald Trump and Republicans who shut down the government, and they're being blamed for that malignant action.
DETROW: Curious what your plan is through the weekend, for the coming days. Are you having direct conversations with the White House? What comes next?
JEFFRIES: Since the White House meeting that took place on Friday, it's been radio silent. We haven't heard a word from them because they wanted to shut down the government, but now they're going to bear the consequences of doing that. I'm here in the Capitol. We're ready. We're willing. We're able to sit down with anyone, anytime, anyplace, here at the Capitol or back at the White House to fund the government, reopen the government, make sure that we pass a spending agreement that meets the needs of the American people, while at the same time, decisively address the Republican health care crisis.
DETROW: We've got about 30 seconds left. The last shutdown lasted 35 days. Can your caucus hold together for 35-plus days? Is this a long-haul situation in your mind?
JEFFRIES: We need to get this matter resolved sooner rather than later. That's why I'm here in Washington and will continue to be here to meet with anyone at any time and at any place to get this issue resolved.
DETROW: That is House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Thank you so much for your time.
JEFFRIES: Thank you much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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