SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
President Trump wants to close the Kennedy Center - or as he calls it, the Trump Kennedy Center - for two years. The reason, he says, is to do a massive renovation.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I'm not ripping it down. I'll be using the steel. So we're using the structure. We're using some of the marble, and some of the marble comes down. But when it's open, it'll be brand new and really beautiful. It'll be at the highest level.
DETROW: Trump has already made substantial changes to the way the performing arts center is run. He fired its board and packed it with loyalists who renamed it, adding Trump's name. Scores of performers have canceled their shows at the center since Trump's takeover, which raises questions about the future of this cultural institution. We will put some of those questions now to David Graham, who wrote about Trump's effort to shutter the complex for The Atlantic. Thanks for coming on.
DAVID GRAHAM: My pleasure.
DETROW: What was your first reaction to this latest twist that the Kennedy Center may close for up to two years?
GRAHAM: It was both surprising and a little unsurprising. We've seen so many moves from Trump sort of to change the Kennedy Center and to take control of it, it's hard to be surprised by anything now. But yet to close for two years seems really dramatic. There was not a lot of warning about this. And he didn't offer a great deal of explanation.
DETROW: Yeah. Let's just listen to a little bit more of what Trump is saying about the reasons for this announcement. This is him speaking to reporters yesterday.
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TRUMP: It's run down. It's dilapidated. It's sort of dangerous. Things fall out of ceilings. You've seen it.
DETROW: I mean, I've been to a lot of shows there in recent years. I can't say that's how I see the venue. Is that true in any way to you?
GRAHAM: You know, the - architecturally, the Kennedy Center is not for everyone, but I have never known it to be that dilapidated. And just six years ago, the center had a major expansion. And Trump hasn't provided any documentation for this, and his handpicked board hasn't given us any report on this that we could consider and take up.
DETROW: Does he have the power to just knock down this institution without an OK from an outside board or Congress?
GRAHAM: He doesn't have the power to knock it down. What else he might want to do is a little bit hard to say 'cause they haven't - you know, they haven't told us what exactly he wants to do except to make it the most beautiful and the best. I don't think there's a lot of plan here, and I think that's what we're seeing. We have heard him talk about what he will do for the last few months. And, you know, as recently as this fall, he was saying we're going to have a renovation, but we're going to be open the full time. There will be no disruption. Then he put his name on it. But I think he's seeing these things just aren't working. And he has people in charge of it who don't have experience administering an arts center, which doesn't help him.
DETROW: As best as you can tell, what do you think his real motivations are here? Is this, I'm taking my ball and going home because everybody is canceling on the venue I've renamed after myself? Like, what do you think's going on?
GRAHAM: I think it's become very hard for him to run the Kennedy Center. And he had this vision that if he kind of remade it in his populist vision and stopped booking the woke performers who he said that they had had, then ticket sales would go up. And instead, what's happened is he's losing staff. Most of the top officials there have left. He's losing performers. We've seen just in the last few weeks Bela Fleck and Renee Fleming and Philip Glass pulling out of things. And he's losing audiences. The Washington Post reports huge declines in ticket sales. I think just the vision hasn't worked, and he doesn't have a whole lot else up his sleeve, so closing is a way to kind of cover that up.
DETROW: A few weeks ago, I was driving down Pennsylvania Avenue, and then I was driving down along the Mall, and I passed the Trump Institute for Peace (ph). I passed the Trump Kennedy Center. I passed the Lincoln Memorial where Trump now wants to build this big, triumphal arch across the river directly facing it. What do you think happens when a sitting leader imposes this kind of state control on cultural historical centers and puts himself at the center of it?
GRAHAM: I would add to that list the Smithsonian, where we see claims that, you know, exhibit text is being rewritten to de-emphasize Trump's impeachments, for example, and to take out parts of history that he thinks are negative for the U.S. You know, these are the sorts of things that we see in personalist authoritarian regimes in other countries where the head of state is singular. They have all the power. There's a little bit of a cult of personality. And he seems interested in replicating that. When we've seen Trump, you know, talking to dictators in the past, he's often admired things about them and about their countries, and now he seems to be importing that kind of practice to the U.S. as well.
DETROW: Let's bring it back to the Kennedy Center itself. This is an institution that opened in 1971. I mean, I know a lot of people will say that Washington is not the cultural center of the country, but in Washington it is a big deal, and it is the national performing arts center. What do you think is lost if this institution is closed for two years or more?
GRAHAM: You can just look at the example of Philip Glass pulling a symphony out. Philip Glass is one of the premier composers in this country. This is a new work, and that's a loss directly there for the White House. You know, people who live around the Washington area understand how much the Kennedy Center is an important site for performing arts of all varieties, whether it's opera or symphony or folk or jazz or, you know, various global music. It really does leave a hole in the capital. And if - Washington is such a jewel in many ways, in museums and in arts. And to not have a premier performing arts center for two years, it's a big loss.
DETROW: David Graham, staff writer at The Atlantic, thanks so much.
GRAHAM: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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