A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Growing up, how many of you dreamed of being a sports star making that big play that wins the championship? Well, Tori Penso had a different dream. She wanted to be the referee in that big game, and in June, she became the first American woman to lead an officiating crew in a men's World Cup match. Tori Penso joins us now.
So, Tori, 14 years old and you decide - you already know that you want to be a referee instead of playing soccer. How did you make that decision at 14?
TORI PENSO: (Laughter) Well, I was doing both, but it was my mom. You know, moms always encourage us to do some of the strangest things, it seems. But she encouraged me to give it a try. Both of my brothers were referees. And she said, you can be outdoors, you get paid cash, and I said, oh, I'm listening now.
MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter).
PENSO: So started when I was young, and I haven't looked back since.
MARTÍNEZ: So what made refereeing something that became more than just a hobby? What made it something that you started to think, I can do this for real?
PENSO: Well, I was sent to ODP camp in Alabama when I was about 18 years old, and that's when I really got a taste for it as a craft, as a discipline, where people were trying to get better at it and they were...
MARTÍNEZ: That's Olympic Development Program, right - ODP?
PENSO: Yes, yes. Correct, correct. And that's where it's a stay-away camp, and you go there with a team of referees and you really learn the finite details of being a referee - how to properly hold the flag, how to blow the whistle with confidence. I saw that there was a pathway, and when I started to understand that, I got excited as a competitor. And so that's when I really got a taste for it as a true craft - something that you could work on and get better at.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah, yeah. So what are some of the hardest parts about becoming a referee that maybe most fans do not realize?
PENSO: You know, we're athletes, and I don't know if everyone understands that. You know, my training is 2 1/2 to 3 hours a day just of agility, speed, high intensity, strength, all intermixed so that we can perform when it comes on the weekend. We watch our games back, we break them down. We're always trying to get 1% better. But I think, you know, as a referee, it's a very difficult job. We're under quite a bit of pressure, but so are those players and so are those coaches.
MARTÍNEZ: Tell us about the moment when you stepped out on the field as the first female head referee in a World Cup. What was going on in your heart and your - in your mind, both at the same time?
PENSO: Yeah, I mean, it was incredible. When we walked out in Atlanta, the environment was just electric. You know, there is a special ambience about a World Cup. You know, I joke and say the stadium felt bigger that day, and it certainly did. It felt taller and grander. And when we walked out, we just took a moment to really soak up the moment. When you work so hard, decades of hard work to try and get to the pinnacle of the game - something that you were told you couldn't do, or so many people doubted that you would get there - and here you are on that stage, proving all of those people wrong, proving yourself that dreams are worth chasing, it was a moment where we just soaked it in. I still get goosebumps even just talking about it. I will never forget that feeling of walking out of the tunnel.
MARTÍNEZ: Did the players notice that it was a big moment for you? I mean, did they - in a weird way - I'm going to ask a question kind of in an awkward way, Tori, if that's OK - but did they notice that you're a woman (laughter) or are you just a ref at that point?
PENSO: You know, I hope they don't, to be honest. And they have so much pressure on them. They have also worked four years to work to be on this team for their national teams. They're representing their country, their families, with such pride. And so I respect that pressure. They're not looking at me and sizing me up. They are so focused on what they're trying to do. And they trust that FIFA has appointed the best referees in the world, and I think the players respect that we are the best and they don't doubt that. But we are there to get the right decision for the game.
MARTÍNEZ: What is the biggest difference between officiating a men's game and a women's game, especially at this level of soccer?
PENSO: Yeah. There are so many differences. I could talk about this for hours, to be (laughter) honest. You know, there's still a ball and a field and 22 players, but outside of that, the game is very different between the men's and the women's game. You know, we're physiologically just designed differently. You know, men have stronger upper body, and women, you know, we carry most of our weight in our hips. And that just means that there's different types of fouls. You're having more hip checks in the women's game, whereas the men's game, you're seeing more shoulder-to-shoulder challenges that are strong but fair.
And so as a referee, it's important to understand the differences and what you might see as far as different types of fouls. So there are a lot of differences, and the way we approach it has to be very intentional to make sure that we are confident and get the correct decisions on the day.
MARTÍNEZ: Do the male players treat you any differently? Have you noticed anything, like, the way - when they maybe try to argue with you or try to, you know, advocate for a call, do they treat you differently than, say, they would treat a male referee, have you noticed?
PENSO: (Laughter) You know, I don't know if you've ever tried to argue with a woman and win, but I don't know that you're going to.
(LAUGHTER)
PENSO: But I hope that they don't treat me differently. We have earned our spot on that field, and the way the players interact with me is very positive. I've never had any issues. And I think that is the important part - that referees are respected, no matter their gender.
MARTÍNEZ: How do you balance celebrating the historic nature of what you did with wanting to be just a referee? I mean, is that something that you think about, that you're hoping that at some point, you know, you being on the pitch isn't something that is extraordinary anymore?
PENSO: Yeah, I think it's important to celebrate. You know, milestones are important. You know, there's a reason we're the first, and that needs to be celebrated. And I think when we shine a light on that, we recognize the accomplishments not just of myself, but those who came before us who maybe didn't make it to this stage. And so I think it's important to celebrate the moment.
At the same time, let's hit the ground running. Let's have more women referees in the game. Let's encourage them to pick up the whistle and have the confidence to stay in the game. And that's what I'm hoping - by telling our story, it encourages others to want to give it a try.
MARTÍNEZ: What kind of reaction have you gotten from fans, from other women in soccer?
PENSO: It's been incredible. I mean, just in our referee group, I had referees coming over and talking to me about their wives or their daughters and what it meant to have someone like me doing what we were doing. You know, I don't know that I recognized the significance until kind of afterwards, where I was like, wow. The amount of messages that I got from people all over the globe. You know, when I walk out in that stadium and I see little girls and little boys, their eyes just glow up when they see us come out there because we're something different. It's a refreshing perspective, and I know that the work we're doing is significant.
MARTÍNEZ: That's Tori Penso, the first American woman to lead an officiating crew at the men's World Cup. Tori, congratulations, and thank you for giving us the time.
PENSO: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "DAI DAI")
SHAKIRA: (Vocalizing). Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
