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The Florida Roundup is a live, weekly call-in show with a distinct focus on the issues affecting Floridians. Each Friday at noon, listeners can engage in the conversation with journalists, newsmakers and other Floridians about change, policy and the future of our lives in the sunshine state.Join our host, WLRN’s Tom Hudson, broadcasting from Miami.

Why 'online speech is messy' when it comes to the First Amendment

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"Online speech is messy, alright. I'm not going to kid around," FIU Adjunct Professor Allison Matulli said.

On "The Florida Roundup," lawyer, FIU adjunct professor and author of "Your Freedom, Your Power: A Kid's Guide to the First Amendment," Allison Matulli, explained how people need to understand what free speech even means.

Florida is continuing to be on the frontlines of the ongoing debate over the First Amendment.

Many of the issues center around public employees, children and social media. For instance, the state is allowed to ban social media sites from allowing some children to sign up. This has withstood a First Amendment challenge so far. There are also lawsuits centered around public school districts removing certain books from school libraries. And cases of government workers being fired or put on leave over social media posts.

Gov. Ron DeSantis has also supported the state investigating teachers over their social media posts following the murder of conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

"No one is saying the government's going to put you in jail for doing that. But I do think it's a problem," DeSantis said previously. "Is that someone you want teaching your kids when they say that this is something — this assassination should be celebrated? Of course not."

Florida Education Commissioner Anastasios Kamoutsas also sent a memo to superintendents following Kirk's murder. He explained how it was a reminder that certified teachers are held to higher standards as public officials and cited a professional code of conduct.

But what is the line between freedom of speech and the consequences of that speech?

On "The Florida Roundup," Allison Matulli — lawyer, FIU adjunct professor and author of "Your Freedom, Your Power: A Kid's Guide to the First Amendment" — explained how people need to understand what free speech even means.

Online speech is messy, alright. I'm not going to kid around. It's messy for lawyers. It's messy for the courts. It's messy for human understanding. It's messy for how we exist within our households because it's something that's constantly evolving."
Adjunct FIU Professor Allison Matulli

What does "free speech" actually mean?

She explained how people tend to focus on the moral aspect of speech and the "American tradition of having that free speech wrapped around their arm" instead of from a legal standpoint.

"I think we need to really get our arms around what free speech actually means and what it means in the context of the law," Matulli said. "It's two different things, right?"

The Supreme Court created a test of these First Amendment rights where speech may be prohibited if it is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action" and "is likely to incite or produce such action."

Matulli said the line between public and private realms often gets blurred, making the distinction of free speech rights difficult.

ALSO READ: Free speech or threat of violence: US judge hears arguments over UF law student's expulsion

"When I walk into my classroom, and I'm at a public university, correct? That's where free speech exists, right? That's where you're talking First Amendment," Matulli said. "And there has to be a careful outline and understanding in the public realm — that strong line that exists between private entity and public entity. So I think that gets blurred quite a bit. I tell my students any case you attack, it's really about marrying a set of facts to the law and understanding how you can persuade within a courtroom the outcome."

Social media gets complicated

But that's different than trying to persuade people in the public forum, where we tend to classify if something is morally right or view it from our own perspective. In addition, the First Amendment protects against government censorship, not rules from private companies. For instance, if you get banned from social media platforms, there's not necessarily a First Amendment case.

"Online speech is messy, alright. I'm not going to kid around," Matulli said. "It's messy for lawyers. It's messy for the courts. It's messy for human understanding. It's messy for how we exist within our households because it's something that's constantly evolving."

She added there needs to be a consciousness that since these platforms are private entities, their ability to remove speech, delete and cancel people has been "stretched in different ways within the court system."

And when it comes to teachers navigating their personal and professional worlds, it can be a tough balance on social media.

"Those lines, as I said, they're messy. Because people do also tend to post both things. They might post their classroom content on their personal social media and tell kids to look there," Matulli said. "I often talk to teachers, and I have conversations about making those spaces very, very separate — crystal clear, so there is no ambiguity."

Overall, she feels we're living in a society heightened by the "chilling effect," where people self-censor in fear of negative consequences like retaliation. She said it doesn't matter whether you're an average American trying to navigate different spaces or someone who has taken an oath to the Constitution; there's an awareness when it comes to speech.

"We all understand the importance. There's a reason why the First Amendment is first," she said. "Our founders didn't say, 'Oh, this is an afterthought.' There was a consciousness."

This story was compiled from interviews conducted by Tom Hudson for "The Florida Roundup."

I was always that kid who asked the question, "Why?"
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