SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Just 48 hours after a historic plea deal was reached between three accused masterminds of the September 11 terrorist attacks, a plea deal that would have ended two decades of legal uncertainty, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin revoked it. The agreement would have allowed the three men to avoid the death penalty in exchange for pleading guilty for the murder of nearly 3,000 people in 2001. The surprising reversal means there is now still no legal resolution. It also brings back the possibility of an eventual death penalty for the men.
Joining us now is Patrick White. His cousin, Louis Joey Nacke, was aboard United Flight 93 on September 11 and was one of the people who rushed the cockpit, likely saving the U.S. Capitol. White played a major role in organizing the Flight 93 National Memorial in western Pennsylvania.
Patrick, welcome to the show. It's always good to talk to you.
PATRICK WHITE: Likewise, Scott. Thank you.
DETROW: You're an attorney. You've followed these cases closely. I know you've even gone to Guantanamo a few times to observe proceedings. Earlier this week, you said that you thought the plea deal and an admission of guilt was probably the best realistic outcome here at this point. I mean, how are you feeling right now?
WHITE: Well, we're back to the land of uncertainty about what the future holds, both in terms of resources that may be committed, the time frame in which those proceedings may actually continue, I believe ground for potential litigation that would have already likely have been a protracted set of proceedings and hearings. Already, even with the plea agreements in effect, it would have certainly been well over a year before sentencing. We could be looking at well beyond the lifetimes of many of the people who, like myself, have been intimately involved with not only these military commissions but the actual creation of memorials and remembrances for our lost loved ones.
DETROW: I mean, you've had so many anniversaries come and go, so many landmarks. How much does the legal resolution of these cases matter, when you think about it? Why is it important? How do you think about, you know, earlier this week, when it looked like there potentially was legal resolution, what was the way you thought about that in terms of how you make sense of all these things?
WHITE: It was accepting in a, you know, kind of intellectually aware, emotionally begrudging way, too, as my cousin Kenny was - lost his brother Joey. We've talked about it. We made our peace with it. We've seen and heard enough to know that having certainty in particular as to an admission of guilt, as to murder and conspiracy and the willingness to answer, as best as you might expect these fellows could do, questions that would be submitted by family members.
The idea, to me, that they'd spend the rest of their days confined to a small space where they really had no opportunity for any type of a social or personal life, to just spend the rest of their time thinking about how now the rest of the world knew what cowards they were, how uncourageously they had admitted to their guilt after having, for many years, you know, indicated, no, no, we only said those things because we were tortured. Well, now all of us are back to a far more torturous process. I'm hoping our nation can get to a place where we agree it's not necessarily the ideal outcome, but it's the best that circumstances are going to allow so that we don't become like them.
DETROW: Yeah.
WHITE: People who do not operate under rules of law.
DETROW: The potential of a death penalty sentence has hung over all of this. And, you know, I know it's very important for many family members. And again, we're talking about thousands of different families here. So there is a wide, wide range of opinions. But to you, what is the best way to explain why that is the case, why that's so important for so many people?
WHITE: Frankly, I - you know, there's a part of me that can honestly say, as I had told the lawyers for these individuals when we met with them, I had no legal, ethical, moral or emotional, you know, kind of problem with - at that time, it was lethal injection was the only penalty if they were found guilty. I had no problem pushing the plunger for each and every one of them and watching their lives expire. I could live the rest of my days knowing I had done, in a sense, the right, just and dutiful thing.
I've come to the position now where, from my legal training and understanding, observing these processes, that the plea agreements were reached as a result of a just compromise. Our process is one that does not just lead to execution. There's got to be the protections that this military commission set of procedures affords.
DETROW: Patrick, I want to end the interview by just giving you an opportunity to tell listeners a little bit about your cousin Joey and, you know, maybe what it is you think about when you think about him these days.
WHITE: I think about having just been to the memorial earlier this week with my daughter and her family and explaining a bit about what my cousin Joey's role was. They were astonished to see that, you know, his remains were located such a distance from the impact point because he was in the cockpit. He was one of the men that stood up, along with the others on that plane, the men and women. They were the tip of the spear in the war on terror, and they were the ones who prevented further death.
And to me, my cousin Joey, along with those others, are rightfully recognized as true heroes. I told my aunt and uncle shortly after, when our family met up in Pennsylvania years ago, I said, Joey, Joey's the golden thread in the fabric of our family, and I miss him. He was a good man, as I'm sure many others feel about their lost loved ones. But I'm here to say that I believe we need to do the right thing here and reach a resolution.
DETROW: That's Patrick White. Patrick, thanks for talking to us about this story today.
WHITE: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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